How do you solve a problem like elephants?

It seems to be widely believed that elephants don't get enough use. That's been my experience too - I don't see them often, I don't make them very often. Sometimes I make them because they look cool and don't really have much success. The reasons for this are threefold (and interrelated): they're expensive, they're slow, they're easily countered. Why make lumbering elephants when you can have knights whizzing over the map breaking shit? They're countered easily by the spear line, and they're so slow and expensive that if your opponent has monks around, you might as well be donating them your army for nothing.

The thing is, they're a core unit for four civs who have significant bonuses and UTs towards them which are completely going to waste. They're also - not to labour the point - cool. Battle elephants! War elephants! Ballista elephants! Elephants are cool. Often when people post civ ideas or balances changes on here, it will include a way to fix elephants to make them more viable, more widely used, so there's clearly an appetite for it, but it always runs into a similar problem - as soon as you remove a counter for elephants, they suddenly feel super OP. They're a bit of a glass cannon. Either you counter them and they're crap, or you don't and they run you over. Maybe that's a fine way to be, but if it's resulting in the unit not being made very often then I don't think it's very good for the variety of the game.

So, how do people fix them, and why doesn't it work?

Monks

There are a few ideas around this. Only Malay get the Heresy tech, and they also get their elephants cheaper. Coincidentally, Malay are probably the civ most likely to make elephants in my experience, and they're missing numerous stable and blacksmith techs to make them stronger. What happens if you give Heresy to the Khmer, the Burmese, the Vietnamese? It's an expensive tech, so it's still a huge investment in the lategame to make a still expensive unit viable. And after that you can still counter with the spear line. Does elephants which can't be converted until a 1000g Imperial Age tech result in them being too strong?

Okay, maybe it does. So there are other options. Some have suggested a conversion resistance, though that is arguably stronger than Heresy in some circumstances (faster Khmer elephants for example might rather have this to kill the monks rather than lose the ele). Maybe only as an expensive Imperial Age UT. Others have said conversion immunity, which is the really extreme end and I think would definitely be broken.

Honestly I'm find with Heresy being more widely available. It's still super expensive and still requires loads of investment - elephants aren't cheap, the elite upgrade isn't cheap, it's a power spike but you might be dead before then (and that 1000g could have gone on something more useful than eles). Plus it still kills the expensive elephant which the monk player might well be fine with.

Expense

They're expensive. Malay get them cheaper, so Malay are more likely to make elephants (especially on Hideout, especially when you meant to pick magyard). Why not expand that principle? Make them cheaper across the board, with a further bonus for Malay (or perhaps replace the Malay bonus with something else, creation speed? Something not elephant related? Don't know). Would we see more elephants? The good thing about this is you can tune the discount just enough that they're more viable without making them so cheap that everyone is swarming with elephants constantly which can't be stopped.

Spears

I don't think spear resistant elephants is a good idea under any circumstances. They're trash and easy to counter with other stuff. The balance here seems about right to me. But, for the sake of completeness, maybe we could consider something like a reduction in bonus damage?

Speed

So this is related to the monks: elephants are easier to convert because they lumber along like it's a Sunday afternoon and they're going to the supermarket. It takes them a while to get into position. In principle this suits the concept of a strong, high HP, tanky unit. In practice, how much would it imbalance things if they were able to zip about a bit more? Khmer elephants already go faster and it doesn't seem to make much difference - I've seen people say that it means you can raid with them. Let me say that I have never in my life been raided by an elephant. I did once raid an enemy woodline with elephants, but that's because the forward stable was about four tiles away, so I'm not sure that counts.

They're Fine

The last option is just: shut up man, they're fine! So they're situational, that's not a problem. Situational units have their place. If you hide that you're making elephants then it can be a game winning surprise if they don't already have monks or spears massed and upgrades. And anyway, you're exaggerating how little they're used! I see them all the time at my higher/lower ELO than you, get out of your bubble! All four of the Battle Elephant civs are in good shape at the moment, and both Malay and Khmer can still get use out of them with super fast uptimes - Castle Age elephants still kill Feudal Age spears my friend! Plus Vietnamese elephants just got a buff making them tankier, just use them as a meatshield and stop complaining. Extra pierce armour on the Burmese ones too. So what if people still aren't making them? Maybe they will soon! The meta is always shifting.

I'll try not to delete this one as soon as nine people tell me I'm wrong (no promises).

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