Sicilian:
Starts making donjon, you counter with tower, opponent makes surjeonts, surjeonts kill your tower and villager. You try to wall, donjon kill your villager.
Burgandian:
Better eco, cheap paladin, doinking coustilier.
I tried to watch Viper and Hera, and they also seem pretty one sided, when a regular civ is matched with these two. It seems unless your skills are much better to get to a much stronger eco, it's difficult to deal with.
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