Civilization Match-up Discussion Round 11 Week 10: Berbers vs Burgundians

Our first discussion that features a LotW civ!! And also one that we are unlikely to see in the entirety of HC4 lul.

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Hello and welcome back for another Age of Empires 2 civilization match up discussion! This is a series where we discuss the various advantages, disadvantages, and quirks found within the numerous match ups of the game. The goal is to collectively gain a deeper understanding of how two civilizations interact with each other in a variety of different settings. Feel free to ask questions, pose strategies, or provide insight on how the two civilizations in question interact with each other on any map type and game mode. This is not limited to 1v1 either. Feel free to discuss how the civilizations compare in team games as well! So long as you are talking about how the two civilizations interact, anything is fair game! Last week we discussed the Turks vs Vikings, and next up is the Berbers vs Burgundians!

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Berbers: Cavalry and Naval civilization

• Villagers move +10% faster
• Stable units cost -15/20% in Castle/Imperial Age
• Ships move +10% faster
• TEAM BONUS: Genitours are available at the Archery Range starting in Castle Age
• Unique Unit: Camel Archer (Powerful anti-cav-archer cav archer)
• Unique Unit: Genitour (Mounted skirmisher)
• Castle Age Unique Tech: Kasbah (Castles work +25% faster)
• Imperial Age Unique Tech: Maghrebi Camels (Camel units very slowly regen hp)

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Burgundians: Cavalry civilization

• Economic upgrades available one age earlier
• Stable techs cost -50%; Cavalier available in Castle Age
• Gunpowder units +25% attack
• TEAM BONUS: Relics generate food in addition to gold (at a rate of 2f/3g)
• Unique Unit: Coustillier (Cavalry with a special very high damage charge attack on a long cooldown)
• Unique Unit: Flemish Militia (Combination of Champion and Halberdier; only available through Flemish Revolution UT)
• Castle Age Unique Tech: Burgundian Vineyards (Converts all food into half as much gold; Farms generate a small trickle of gold (~45 farmers = 1 relic))
• Imperial Age Unique Tech: Flemish Revolution (All Villagers transform into Flemish Militia; Flemish Militia can be trained from Town Centers)

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Below are some match up-specific talking points to get you all started. These are just to give people ideas, you do not need to address them specifically if you do not want to!

• Alrighty, new civ time! For 1v1 Arabia, Berbers are usually considered above-average, whereas Burgundians thus far are considered... meh. However, Burgundians do have something Berbers do not - a potentially powerful economy. Can Burgundians possibly leverage this to get an advantage vs Berbers, or will they simply be run over by cheap knights, camels, and camel archers?
• For closed maps, things perhaps look a bit different. The Burgundian eco can be very consistently powerful here, and they are much more likely to be able to hit their critical timings. Also, their gunpowder can more often be used. Berbers, meanwhile, do struggle a bit more with their lack of good eco bonus, although they can build up a very scary army of Camel Archers. Which civ do you favor on your BFs, Arenas, and Hideouts?
• In team games, obviously both civs prefer to be pocket. Berbers are a strong choice for midgame, as they can flood a massive amount of knights and camels. However, their lack of Paladin in the lategame can be somewhat problematic. Burgundians, meanwhile, have an excellent economy and have their own midgame timings with early cavalier and paladins, and like Berbers they miss out a bit in late game due to not having Bloodlines. Which civ do you favor as pocket here?

Thanks as always for participating! Next week we will continue our discussions with the Huns vs Malay. Hope to see you there! :)

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Previous discussions: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3