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Hi all! I’m sure you’re asking: “Why did this guy quote Cavalry Archers in the title?” Because we’re not going to talk about Cavalry Archers themselves, but about units that resemble them (mounted and ranged unit) but are somehow not considered “Cavalry Archers” entirely. These are Conquistadors, Arambai, Mamelukes, and Genitours. We’ll see how changes in DE affected them and how they would fare if certain techs affected them. Conquistadors Conqs deal pierce armor and are affected by Stable (Bloodlines and Husbandry) and Blacksmith (Archer armor only) techs. They are not affected by Thumb Ring, Fletching/Bodkin/Bracer, Ballistics or Chemistry. Conqs have a strong base power, and they are very easy to upgrade, only needing 5 techs + the Elite upgrade for a Full Upgrade. Conqs in the beginning had these armor classes (main counters are in brackets): Cavalry (Pikes, Camels, Mamelukes, Genoese xbows, Kamayuk, Flem. Militia); Unique unit (Samurai); Archer (Skirmisher, Genitour, Huskarl). Later the Gunpowder unit armor was added (Condottiero, Winged Hussar). With the introduction of DE, Conqs were “nerfed” by adding them the “Cavalry Archer armor class”. What does it mean? That there are some units that deal an extra damage against them. Those are: Camel Archers (+4, +6 for Elite), Elite Genitours (+2) and Elite Skirmishers (+2, +3 for Imperial). The consequences of this are: That Berbers stomp Conqs with their UUs, and that Elite Skirms now are harder counters to them (see Table). Table legend: First number indicates the damage per shot, and number in brackets indicates number of shots to kill. It can be seen why Berbers are counter to Spanish (3rd biggest win rate for Berbers and worst win rate for Spanish), since the other strong option for Spanish (Paladins) is also countered by cheap Camels. Regarding Skirmishers, they even outrange Conqs, whose only option is to outrun them, which is of no use when you’re pushing. Before getting to the Elite Skirm upgrade + Bodkin, Conqs have a crazy power. They are undoubtedly the best early Castle Age Unique unit. But, after the Elite Skirm upgrade, any civ has the tool to counter Conqs (sorry Turks, you still have Jannies, HC and CAs for that). Even generic units outrange them by far, and by the time Conqs can shoot, they'd have taken damage.That’s why it is often said that Conqs fall off in Imperial Age. Arambai Arambai deal pierce armor and are affected by Stable (Bloodlines and Husbandry), Blacksmith (Archer armor only) techs, and Ballistics. They are not affected by Thumb Ring, Fletching/Bodkin/Bracer, Parthian Tactics or Chemistry. They are also very easy to upgrade, only needing 5 techs + the Elite upgrade for a Full Upgrade. Arambai’s armor classes are: Cavalry, Unique unit, Archer and Cavalry Archer. So everything that was said about Conquistadors, also affects them. The main difference is that they also get another armor that boosts attacks from anti-archers (Skirms, Genitours, Huskarls) still more. While Conquistadors held well standard range attack (like that of Xbows/Arbs and Cav Archers), Arambai only have 2 (3 for elite) pierce armor, thus making them shredded by ranged units. Having only 5 range doesn’t help either. But, as Conqs, they are one of the best raiders in AoE2. Ok, so Arambai have the Cavalry Archer armor and are not affected by Parthian Tactics. How would it affect their performance in Imperial Age? See the table. We’ll consider only ranged units, since the +1 melee armor would indeed affect melee fights, but not as much as +2 pierce armor against range: The units that would see mostly affected their damage to Arambai are foot archers without bonus damage against them (Arbs, Rattan, Longbows, Plumes, Slingers) and some mounted units, like HCA, Mangudai, Eleph archer and Ballistas. If Parthian Tactics affected Arambai, they would also resist more defensive building shots, and that could improve very much their raiding and building razing with Manipur Cavalry researched. Mamelukes Mamelukes deal melee armor and are affected by Stable (Bloodlines and Husbandry), Blacksmith (Forging/Iron Casting/Blast Furnace + Cavalry armors) techs, and the Saracen UT Zealotry, which grants them 20HP. Unlike Conqs and Arambai, they don’t get the Cavalry Archer armor. They get Camel, Unique unit, Archer and Mameluke (this makes Pikes and Camels deal additional damage to them) armors. It is (and forgive me Devs) a bit strange, since Mamelukes are not affected by anything that boosts ranged units, but they get the penalty of having the Archer armor class. This benefits Archer counters, like Skirms, Genitours and Huskarls, who are a problem for Mamelukes, since they are outranged by the first two, and have to hit-and-run not to get thrashed by Goth UUs. This strange issue could be directly solved by giving Skirms/Genitours/Huskarls a bonus attack against Mameluke armor class, and removing the Archer class to Mamelukes. Others could argue for Mamelukes having the Cavalry Archer armor class. This would undoubtedly benefit Camel Archers instead of Huskarls. But, if we open that door, we could also think that Mamelukes should be affected by Parthian Tactics. Next table shows the damage output of generic ranged units and counter units, if Mamelukes had different combinations of both Archer/Cav Archer armors and Parthian Tactics if considered Cav Archers: Here we see the master move of Devs with Mamelukes. Mamelukes without both armor classes are close to uncounterable (resist arrows and outrun or counter most melee units). If we give them only Cav Archer armor, the damage output of anti-archers increases, but the one who benefits more is the Camel Archer, and giving them Parthian Tactics leaves again only Camel Archers as the only counter unit. Both armor classes turn anti-archers into a too strong counter. Giving them Parthian Tactics would leave anti-archers in good balance against Mamelukes, but it would, in all cases, leave standard ranged units (arbs and HCAs – and most of UUs) very ineffective against them. Their current state has a very good balance, and, to me, the only question that arises here is if they should get a little decrease in their gold value (just to 80). Genitours Ok, this is the last one and the most complicated to assess, due to the fact that all Berber allies have access to them. Genitours deal pierce armor and are affected by Stable (Bloodlines and Husbandry), Blacksmith (both attack/range and armor) techs, Ballistics, Chemistry and Thumb Ring. They have Cavalry, Cavalry Archer, Archer and Unique unit armor classes. They are regarded as “mounted Skirmishers”. But which of the generic and Unique techs and bonuses affect them? Here’s a table including all Skirmisher and Cavalry archer affecting features. I will show if they affect Genitours and how would it affect: We can see that there are both techs/bonuses that affect Cav Archers and Skirmishers but do not affect Genitours. Parthian Tactics would give a 10 pierce armor (the same as Elite Huskarl) to civs featuring FU Cav Archers, like Saracens, Japs, Indians, Turks, Magyars and Tatars. The last 3 also have UTs that affect Cav Archers, but the Magyar one doesn't apply to Genitours (They would become crazy units with 75HP, 9 at, 8 range and 4/10 armor). I think that the crazy armor Genitours would get is the main reason why Parthian Tactics does not affect Genitours. The same could be said about Recurve Bow, which would be a great boost to a civ that already has the best trash unit in the game (when gold runs out, Huszar + Genitour would be broken). Not sure though, why Steppe Husbandry doesn't affect them. Lithuanian Genitours would also win a lot if Skirmisher features affected Genitours. As for Byzantine discount, there would be no problem, seeing that they lack Bloodlines and Elite Genitours would only have 55HP. They would support well Cataphracts against Archers/Cav Archers! So that's all! I hope I didn't make big mistakes and that you liked this 4 unit analysis. Tell me any thoughts you had while reading the thread! Have a nice day! [link] [comments] |
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